Nick's Rogue Jedi w/ Blue Hero Analysis and Guide

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nickthebug7777 1374

Blue Hero Analysis and Guide at Mandalorian HQ: https://mandalorianhq.wixsite.com/swdestiny/blank-2/2017/10/15/Blue-Hero-Analysis-and-Guide

The basic idea behind this deck is at the end of the article. I highly suggest reading the entire thing as it explains many of the card choices used in this and other blue hero decks.

Thanks for reading! -NickTheBug; Mandalorian HQ

72 个回复

JuzFuzz 27

Have you had much of a chance to play this list? The wording of the article implied that you have only just created this? Especially interested in Thrawnkar match-ups?

Kanan is an awesome partner for many hero characters too. Slipping grey cards in to the mono blue has saved me from Kylo damage a couple of times with other mono blue characters. I'd probably add another Riposte, but not sure what I'd take out.

I like the decklist though, and I look forward to trying this one out, cheers.

nickthebug7777 1374

I've done quite a bit of testing for this deck in preparation for the article. I probably should have said that. I have an 8/0 win rate against Cad/Phasma, 5/1 against Kylo/Phasma, 2/3 against Kylo/FN, and 5/0 against Anikan,Phasma. I'm also 5/0 against other blue hero decks and 4/1 against OG Vader/Phasma and OG Vader/MagnaGuard.

The Thrawnkar matchup is tough for hero blue because they need to discard cards to reroll a lot and their shields are useless. I have a 4/3 win rate against Thrawnkar. Rend helps with those Imperial Inspections and Riposte makes shields worthwile.

As for Ripost, I was actually considering taking the one copy out. More often than not I want to discard it rather than play it and your essentially doing 3 damage to yourself for 3 to an opponent. It is a great finisher which is why I have one in here.

I hope this answered your questions!

JuzFuzz 27

Thanks for adding the results, you have piqued my interest in the decklist!

The extra Riposte for me would be used as a special delivery of shields for Thrawnkar.... ideally.

Scactha 882

Nice writeup! I also agree that blue hero has stepped up and is capable to hold its own vs most Villains. Much due to the defensive tools you mention.

Let me just add that (blue) Hero also got good offensive tools in the dual pair Running Interference/Force Speed & Concentrate/Lightsaber Training. In the first case we play either of the dice shifting cards and then exhaust RI to hinder mitigation and in the second we simply double action dice shifting into resolve. Either way we have an effective way of adding 5-6 damage through 1 card and 1-2 . Enough to burst down most characters by T2-3.

Sjuney 7

I would say that The Force is Strong is pretty crucial in this deck along with two lightsaber pulls that's consistently free upgrades. Might consider it but up to you, I do like this idea but thee free upgrades are too tempting.

nickthebug7777 1374

@Scactha Thanks! The Running Interference/Force Speed is pretty fantastic. I've attempted to construct decks around it but the only good yellow/blue deck seems to be Sabine/Rey. I feel like this mono blue character combination is good enough that we don't need to switch to a yellow character for RI.

Concentrate and Lightsaber training are awesome cards if you have money. In my experience, you sometimes have tons of money and sometimes have almost none with this deck. For those games that you have resources coming out of your ears it's great but I don't think I'd include it because its just a reroll when resources are a little tighter.

@Sjuney I love the Force Is Strong. I wrote about it in my article above. I think it's a fantastic card. I find that I don't need it. however, in this particular deck. Kanan tends to make money so we aren't too poor. I also dropped Lightsaber Pull because there were so many weapons that there is almost never a turn when I don't get one. I don't want to add Lighstaber Pull just for The Force Is Strong. It's a good card/combo but when it's not necessary I don't feel like I want to take up four card slots. What would remove for them?

karolko 250

I've iterated to something very similar in my Qui-Gon / Kanan build, on Upgrades / Supports we differ by just one extra Force Speed I run, on events side it's bit more diverse but I've considered / run most of the events you do. I am surprise that you do not run Lightsaber Pulls (I would swap for Synchronicity). Also Deflect is not that great these days especially with this deck that really has shield for days - looks like win more card. I would suggest trying Lightsaber Training - I find it to be of great value / finisher card.

nickthebug7777 1374

@karolko Force Speed is a great card. I find that two of them aren't that necessary especially when you are trying to load up with upgrades and you only have 3 slots per character.

I used to run Lightsaber Pull but I took it out because I had so many upgrades in the deck that I always have one in hand. I would rather run more upgrades than Lightsaber Pull in this deck because I want quantity on my guys. I also would not take out Synchronicity. Synchronicity is one of the best cards for Qui-Gon and is really a game changer. I might take out Riposte for Lightsaber Pull but Riposte is great against Thrawnkar.

My first version of this deck didn't have deflect but I got murdered by Cad/Phasma. After I added Deflect my win rate is now 9/0 against that deck. It gets you 1 or 2 additional damage per card and saves you 2 or 3. Also Deflecting a 6 on a Sonic Cannon is the best thing ever.

I'm not all that impressed with Lightsaber Training but it's been suggested a lot. I'll test it out for sure.

Foz 999

If you find the number of upgrades is sufficient and wanted pull in the deck, the thing to do would be to cut some lightsabers to fit it. Removing 1 each (2 total copies) of Ancient Lightsaber, Rey's Lightsaber, or Shoto Lightsaber would give you 3-4 effective copies of each one in the deck, and the versatility to often choose which you prefer at the moment. Certainly Rey's would be one of the two I would cut as it is unique and you'd basically never want the second copy. For me Shoto Lightsaber would probably be the second cut since it relies on having another blue weapon on board and you'd much rather draw a pull than a hard copy of Shoto after you just played one of your non-blue-weapon upgrades.

nickthebug7777 1374

That's a good thought and was something I tried early on. Rey's Lightsaber is definitely something I wouldn't mind going down to one copy on. Asside from that, though, I like having 2 Ancients and 2 Shotos. If you can get 2 Shotos down on Qui Gon thats 2 damage on activation every turn. The Ancients help with healing and I don't want to drop to one copy (although Lightsaber Pull would help get it back).

I'll attempt to take out one Rey's saber and replace it with one copy of Lightsaber Pull but I'm not sure how useful one Lightsaber Pull is.

Red Castle 46

I've played a lot with Qui-Gon/Kanan, and I personally found that Luke's Protection was too slow, not to mention that if you don't have Fearless (other upgrade that I decided to drop from my list) on one of your character, it drops your card draws per turn to 4, which is not enough.

Another thing that I realised is that with so many events that cost 0, you don't need that much money in that build, so I would favor Obi-Wan's Hut as a battlefield instead of Moisture Farms.

Finally, one of the key upgrade in my build was Force Throw on Kanan. Combined with his Focus, it becomes a real threat to your opponent big dice. Claiming first was important so that I could roll Kanan as my first action. Force Throw, guard, Force Misdirection allowed my to control the field. Maybe in the end that's why I decided to cut Luke's Protection from my list. That and also that most of my opponents went for Qui-Gon first.

nickthebug7777 1374

I really like Luke's protection. It is one of my favorite cards in the deck so I don't think I'd cut it. Especially with Fearless it is awesome. Many of my opponents will attack Kanan first which leaves Qui Gon open to deal damage with Luke's Protection. The lack of new cards definitely hurts though.

I do think that Moisture Farm isn't necessary. I tend to have enough money most of the time and Obi Wan's Hut is great for this deck.

I hadn't thought about Force Throw as it's kind of fallen out of favor recently. I can definitely see the potential with Kanan and I'll test it out for sure!

Red Castle 46

Maybe that's the big difference. When I started playing my Qui-Gon/Kanan deck, my friends targetted and killed Kanan first. I won every game. Then they started targetting Qui-Gon first and that's when it started to get harder. In the end, I would say I was about 50/50 with the deck against players that got a lot of practice against it.

talism 36

Scactha 882

@nickthebug7777 I wouldn´t say that Sabine/Rey is the only decent yellow/blue pair we got. Especially as they´re mixed damage to a huge degree. I´d rather say we want mainly -oriented pairs and there´s a couple of them:

Chewie/Kanan or Rey - Chewie offers natural , 4 damage sides and a beefy 12 HP. Kanan matches his well too.

Finn(!?)/Kanan or Rey - this was a surprise to me, but when I noticed that Finn allows you to include Z6 Riot Control Baton if fell into place. The baton is fantastic damage output and Finns -side allows adding Synchronicity for even more burst damage.

Down the line we get even more choices with Luke Skywalker - Unlikely Hero and Anakin Skywalker - Conflicted Apprentice. Either matches the afore mentioned yellow chars well imho.

nickthebug7777 1374

@Red Castle that might be it. Practice against this deck certainly helps and many people aren't testing against it. I do like the late game for this deck either way because Kanan is a beast with 3 weapons on him.

@talism I find Riposte to be way more underwhelming in this set than in the last. I'm considering taking out the copy I have in there right now. You just really want your shields in this meta. I also would never take out Rend. Rend gives you a gray card to potentially avoid Kylo2's ability and it also gets rid of Imperial Inspection which hurts this deck more than most.

@Scactha Chewie/Kanan has potential to be sure. 12 HP is no joke especially with 2 Second Chances to give him 10 more. I'm not sure it's consistent enough to be tier 1. I feel like Chewie is waiting to break into T1 but isn't there yet.

Finn/Kanan is definitely Finn's best pairing. Even with Riot Baton, though, I don't like this deck. Finn is too expensive to really be played effectively. His health and die sides are just so bad.

We definitely will see more Yellow/Blue decks in the future IMO the yellow character from the draft set looks like a good fit for this with her melee side.

Scactha 882

On other topics in the thread;

I prefer Lightsaber Pull over upgrades due to consistency. I cannot find much reason to bring anything else than 2x Ancient, 1 Shoto and 2x Rey´s on top of the Pulls any more. 7/30 cards is just the right ratio imho to escape dead cards in hand only serving as overwrite fodder. Adding grey Vibros waters out the cost efficient Trainings efficieny, so that´s a no-no to me. Z6 is an expection as for the reliable damage output at which point Training is switched for Clash.

I tried Force Throw, but it´s good at 1/3 of the sides AND if you manage to time it right. Having a Rey saber with 3 damage sides or a Z6 that has damage showing 2/3 of the time tends to feel better imho.

nickthebug7777 1374

@Scactha I recently tried Force Throw as well and found it underwhelming. I've had the Lightsaber Pull package before but decided that I liked this version better. I may revert back but I like Fearless and the double Shoto which you can't get with the inclusion of Lightsaber Pull.

As for the Vibroknife, I feel like it is an important piece to avoiding Kylo2's ability. I also love it against Thrawkar and other blue hero decks. Luckily, many people are of your mindset and don't include Vibroknife anymore which helps us due to our shield generation. I don't want to be on the other end of that issue.

karolko 250

I would say I would cut Vibroknives long time ago as well if not for the new Kylo matchup. Double Shoto is must, especially if supported by Lightsaber Pulls. That way you can get those two Shotos on Qui-Gon very consistently. If Rey's Saber was cut then I would always play at least second redeploy weapon (i.e. vanilla Saber).

Scactha 882

@nickthebug7777 Well, the evading-Kylo argument is moot when going blue-yellow route. That said in a 'true blue' deck like yours here I agree that safeguarding vs Kylo is wise. I´d suggest Confidence as an option as it´s a great counter to Vibro amongst other things.

Foz 999

It's worth choosing gray cards when they will do about as well, but Vibroknife has a ton of anti-synergy with the deck that I think it's unwise to ignore. It Binds All Things doesn't make it cheaper. It can't Guard or Force Misdirection. It isn't a blue weapon to turn on Shoto Lightsaber. It also doesn't work with Lightsaber Training which you could play very profitably if you focused more on the lightsaber package. It doesn't give a shield side to work with Synchronicity (every saber does). Once Qui-Gon is dead, Kanan has no so he can't even paly Synchronicity unless his upgrades give shield sides.

nickthebug7777 1374

@Scactha true abut blue/yellow but I really feel like the blue/yellow character pairings aren't as good as the mono blue pairings. I'v considered Confidence but I don't like it very much as a card. I'd rather have anti God-Roll cards like Sound the Alarm.

@Foz While those are true, I wouldn't cut Vibroknife for a couple reasons. First, it is a good, two cost weapon with Ambush. It also makes your melee damage unblockable, provides a melee side for Synchronicity, and can be overwritten later. It's certainly not the best card for the deck but it's good enough to leave in here imo.

karolko 250

Won small tournament with my version tonight.

Difference between @nickthebug7777 and my version are: +1 Force Speed, +2 Lightsaber Pull, +2 Lightsaber Training, +2 Overconfidence and -1 Riposte, -2 Sound the Alarm, -2 Deflect, - 2 Synchronicity.

Didn't play against Kylo / FN tonight but from previous iterations I knew that the matchup is rough but beatable. Also I didn't fear ranged deck so didn't play deflect as constant shields were enough to mitigate those decks (and that was even before inclusion of Fearless / Luke's Protection). Lightsaber pulls just allows to have two Shoto's online by turn two in so many games which is brutal. Also in end game with It Binds All Things you can turn every Lightsaber Pull into Field Medic (Ancient Lightsaber) which is just awesome.

nickthebug7777 1374

@karolko thanks for your results! How effective was the second Force Speed? I had two in mine at first but opted for only one and included one copy of Riposte instead. I'm all in favor of taking out Riposte as I feel it is the least effective card in the deck right now.

Lightsaber Pull seems to be a card most people would include in this deck. I think it has a place but a couple of cards need to be switched around to make it effective.

How was Overconfidence? I loved that card in SoR but in EaW I can't seem to justify including it. Deflect seems fine to remove but I found I was having trouble against Cad/Phasma and that card was all I needed to increase my win rate.

Lightsaber Training has been suggested a lot in this thread but I'm unimpressed. Unless you have two Ancients out that you can turn to 2 +3s it just doesn't feel like it can be used effectively. It's possible I'm just not that great with it.

Sound The Alarm is great as an anti God roll but I can definitely justify taking it out. It's only in mine anymore to protect against Kylo2 a bit better. If you didn't fight any Kylo2s then removing it would probably be smart.

Synchronicity is a card that I can't imagine removing. It's my favorite card in the deck and one of the best cards in the game. Two damage out of nowhere is scary for your opponent even if you don't have it in hand and it has finished games for me many times. Did you find that you missed it?

Cheers on the win!

karolko 250

@nickthebug7777 Force Speed special just allows so many things, one of those is obviously Lightsaber Training into lots of damage :-)

Overconfidence is still good, I use it mostly as a God Roll protection targeting two scary dice of my opponents almost exclusively.

As I said, didn't have issues with ranged for a long time, just too many shields for them to overcome unless they play On the Hunt.

Lightsaber Training is excellent reach, won me the finals by turning Rey Saber to 2 damage and Ancient to +3 damage. It increases your damage output for a turn by 4-6 (5 is very common, 6 rare) and with Force Speed actions it's not counterable.

As for Synchronicity - I never liked that card, even with my SoR Qui-Gon / Rey build. I chose to run different reach card back then (Power of the Force) and was much more satisfied with the result. When I look for reach, I look for card being able to ditch out 3+ additional damage (preferably more) at least.

The only weak link at this point is the battle field, I chose to run Mos Eisley Spaceport but would like to run something that I can use (and they can not) if they win the roll (which they do a lot) and chose shields instead of their battlefield.

nickthebug7777 1374

@karolko the Force Speed and Lightsaber Training combo is sweet and is something that I've yet to try out. I think if you include Lightsaber Training then 2 Force Speeds is definitely the right call.

Overconfidence is a very good anti God Roll card. I think I'd take Sound the Alarm instead just due to it being free but the fact that one of the dice from Overconfidence is removed is awesome.

Hmm.. That's interesting. Like I said earlier Synchronicity is one of my favorite cards in the deck. There are other options, of course, but I feel like Qui Gon and his weapons will roll melee and shields frequently and damage from hand is one of blue heroes biggest strengths. I can definitely see removing it in favor something like the Power of the Force but I feel like I'd still prefer Synchronicity for any deck with Qui Gon.

As for the battlefield, I usually go with Obi Wan's hut for blue hero decks. For this deck I chose Moisture Farm because resources are blue heroes best friend. It's a toss up between those two, though.

karolko 250

@nickthebug7777Last thing about Force Speed, since you'll get 3 actions in total (one to resolve Force Speed die + two additional) you can also resolve both Kanan die with his "before" ability which came useful in at least one game today.

Overconfidence - It is the only removal in the deck that doesn't require my die to be rolled in the pool and can deal with lots of nonsense. Granted Sound the Alarm can most of the time do similar thing at zero cost, I just prefer being able to actually remove the die as well (common play is to reroll Vibroknife + some other melee die which many times ends in Vibroknife die being removed).

I don't like Obi Wan's hut that much - although it would be good in some matchups the fact that it would hurt me in Kylo / FN matchup is a no go for me.

nickthebug7777 1374

@karolko that's my favorite thing about Force Speed in this deck. It's just awesome.

Overconfidence and Sound the Alarm fill basically the same role there. I think the question is weather or not the removal of one of the dice is worth a resource. Also Overconfidence can reroll special sides which Sound the Alarm cannot.

That's a good point for Obi Wan's Hut. I feel like versus most decks though, Obi Wan's Hut is a really good battlefield for this deck and it might be worth using for that reson.

karolko 250

@nickthebug7777 Based on my experience with the deck the only two matchups I am worried about are Kylo / FN and Thrawnkar matchups.

Kylo / FN for obvious reasons, Thrawnkar for the fact they can remove key cards from hand, Imperial Inspect you (with Thrawn checking for rends beforehand) and of course Crime Lord you in first round after they check that you have no suitable removal.

Obi Wan's Hut would be horrible in former matchup but good in latter. I am in search for battlefield that would help me in both of those bad matchups.

Scactha 882

Agree with everything @Foz said. Vibros aren´t an autoinlcude when we have Training. 1 for 5-6 is simply better imho.

I´m cold on Sound the Alarm as it´s just another reroll away from going back to the same state and dice have increasingly more damage sides making it moot. One card I do find usable for the strike-wide-rerolling purpose is (harping yellow-blue again ;)) is Bad Feeling. It rerolls both their and our dice, making it a hefty swing of board state in comparison.

Gratz for the win @karolko! It´s nice to see Jedi win some.

karolko 250

@Scactha I keep Vibros just for FN Matchup (where is stays in hand for whole game) and Thrawnkar matchup (when it can cut through stupid amount of shields they can generate). If there was another really nice two cost point blue weapon then I would definitely reconsider.

nickthebug7777 1374

@Scactha I'm going to have to agree with @karolko on the Vibronife issue. It is just really effective at avoiding Kylo2 damage and cutting through Thrawkar's crazy shields (With Personal Shield and Hounds Tooth). It's also another weapon that can be dropped onto a character if it's the only thing we have in hand and we don't loose tempo. It also is effective against other blue hero which will, itself, be generating tons of shields like we are.

Sound the Alarm is a good card that I like a lot. That being said, I would drop it in an instant if it weren't for Kylo2. This is a card we really need to play around a lot because it is always going to be at the top tables. I would drop it if a better gray mitigation card came around but as is it's much better than Confidence.

As for the battlefield. I agree with you there. Thrawnkar loves Moisture Farm and Kylo/FN loves Obi Wan's Hut. I think a neutral battlefield like you took to the tourney, @karolko, is a good option. Alternatively, you could run Obi Wan's Hut and attempt to claim early versus Kylo/Fn. Or play Vibroknife and make that extra shield useless. Really there are a lot of battlefields that could work. I guess it probably just depends on play style.

Scactha 882

On Vibro vs Thrawnkar I´m not convinced since they´ll do just what we do with Confidence and Heroism, remove that single die and let the shields do the rest. Just with Electroshock, Doubt or He Doesn´t Like You.

On Confidence/Alarm. Again, it supposes card advantage to make a meaningful impact and that's no guaranteed in this deck imho. In a Mill deck it´s much better.

Foz 999

Secluded Beach - Scarif might be the neutral battlefield you want. Kanan's side is the only thing it puts in jeopardy, and you should be able to keep those clear of it with his power. A lot of decks are using Phasma, and Cad tends to reroll so his dice might be in pool at a point you could claim. It's not likely to be a huge advantage, but at least could be useful and can force opponents to play differently to avoid its removal. IMO more upside than the other "neutral" battlefields that will basically never do anything when claimed.

If you specifically wanted tech again Thrawnkar, Hangar Bay - Imperial Fleet would probably be it since damage does nothing for them and the trigger should hit them nearly every time due to low upgrade count. That field is probably harsh in other matches though. Separatist Base - Mustafar could also be considered but is less good against Thrawnkar since they get to pick where the damage goes.

nickthebug7777 1374

@Scactha if they waste their mitigation on a lowly Vibroknife die that's fine with us. In that case, it served it's purpose and our +3 on Ancient gets to stay n the pool. If they don't remove it, then it gets to slice through shields. Either way we are happy.

@Foz I normally use Secluded Beach when building a blue deck because they are entirely melee. I probably wouldn't use it here because of Kanan's side. If one of their characters is about to die, claiming gives them an out that we don't wan't to let them have.

As for Hangar Bay and Separatist Base, I don't feel like this deck claims often enough or fast enough to play them. They are good versus Thrawnkar but not much else as we aren't going to be very fast to the claim.

Foz 999

That argument doesn't make much sense given your earlier arguments. Obi-Wan's Hut - Tatooine, which can absolutely save many characters in the same situation (and many other ones too), was apparently just fine. Hell your original build posted here is on Moisture Farm - Tatooine which I consider completely insane as the battlefield of a deck that rarely claims. To be honest Hut and Moisture Farm have a far better chance of helping your opponent than Secluded Beach - Scarif does, yet somehow you haven't bothered to argue that they are bad because they give broadly-useful advantages to your opponents. I fail to find "this has a minor drawback" to be a compelling argument when the battlefield you did pick and most you've discussed are huge liabilities if your opponent gets them.

There are of course do-nothing battlefields which have little impact on the game, but it's relatively easy to see that Secluded Beach provides much more upside than the limited risk, which puts it ahead of battlefields that are broadly useless to both players.

nickthebug7777 1374

@Foz I fail to see how Obi Wan's Hut really helps out opponents that much. Many decks don't run a blue character and the ones that do are not our biggest threat (aside from Kylo/FN). In the Kylo/FN case, Secluded Beach doesn't help us any more than it hurts us because they have exactly as many range sides as we do.

Yes, Moisture Farm gives huge upsides for the opponent. Obi Wan's Hut is probably a better choice. However, when I built this deck the point was to get as many upgrades out as possible which needs resources. This deck can have long turns if we choose to use Luke's Protection and such but we can also shorten it up if we choose. Kanan helps us claim a lot faster as well.

As for Obi Wan's Hut giving opponents an out, it is less likely than Secluded Beach because we need to be targeting a blue character for it to make a difference. Also, It's a higher upside for us (it does a damage when we claim rather than removing a range die which we don't have issues with because of Deflect and shields).

Overall, I think do nothing battlefields are the way to go if your scared but Obi Wan's Hut and Moisture Farm help us out the most. I'd probably go with Obi Wan's Hut in the future as I often have lots of extra cash lying around with this deck.

Setzuen 445

I agree with your earlier comments - Lightsaber Pull isn't necessary. You can only search for "blue weapons", which is very restricting. You can't search for ability upgrades or Vibroknife (which would be my priority, to void all shields for the rest of the game). It also takes an action, which ultimately slows the deck down, when you could simply draw an upgrade for free during the upkeep phase.

I would definitely recommend Makashi Training, as it's still the best upgrade in the game imho. It adds very consistent damage for a low cost, and has a damage mitigation effect that can be triggered every round. I would definitely consider replacing Fearless for it, because for the same cost, Makashi Training does a lot more. You can gain a shield with Fearless, which is essentially pinged off for 1 damage, but Makashi Training will often roll 2 - especially after a couple of re-rolls. Not to mention the mitigation that Makashi Training's effect provides. Sure, Fearless also draws a card, but card draw isn't valuable in this TCG, as you draw up to 5 on your next upkeep phase anyway.

I would also consider Clash, as it adds incredible value vs melee match ups. My deck contains an overwhelming amount of cheap control, and I clean-sweeped two local tournaments, because they simply couldn't break through my control/shield generation. I've always thought that Hero > Villain, but the latest additions have made Hero even stronger.

Setzuen 445

Also, just to touch on the Obi-Wan's Hut - Tatooine vs Secluded Beach - Scarif; I believe both are very solid choices for this deck. I'm honestly baffled that you're not using Obi-Wan's Hut - Tatooine in this deck, considering its synergy with Qui-Gon Jinn - Ataru Master.

What makes Obi-Wan's Hut - Tatooine so good is that you will ALWAYS benefit from it, however, if your opponent wants to benefit from it, they have to meet 3 conditions. 1. They also have to be blue. 2. They have to be faster than you to be able to claim it before you do. 3. They have to pray that you don't have Vibroknife out, or the shields they gain are worthless anyway.

Now, in the defence of Secluded Beach - Scarif, it's good for the opposite reason, in that it can NEVER be used against you, as you're pure melee, however, if you're against a (very common) ranged deck, you can really ruin their day. Sure, if it's a melee-mirror, neither of you will get any benefit, but you won't suffer either, but on those games where you're against a ranged deck, you have an overwhelming advantage.

To summarise, both are great choices. I would lean towards Obi-Wan's Hut - Tatooine, but don't discredit Secluded Beach - Scarif, as it's by far the best alternative. I definitely wouldn't run Moisture Farm - Tatooine, especially considering how slow this deck can be with Luke's Protection. If you're against a faster deck, your opponent will claim Moisture Farm - Tatooine each round and use that money to snowball out of control. It's very risky, and it requires you to be the absolute-fastest every round, which conflicts with the slow-paced Qui-Gon Jinn - Ataru Master shield-pinging strategy.

Scactha 882

@nickthebug7777 The 'fine either way' statement makes no sense from the earlier argumenation. If Thrawnkar excels at generating shields and Vibro cuts through them, nullifying Vibro's die matter.

On the BG discussion I agree that Moisture Farm supposes that you will claim faster or it´'d be a folly. Beach seems alot more acceptable. Better risk losing that 1 over taking a Cad Bane blast.

Setzuen 445

You'd almost never lose Kanan Jarrus - Rebel Jedi's ranged dice with Secluded Beach - Scarif anyway, seeing as you could use Kanan Jarrus - Rebel Jedi's ability to resolve-cheat the ranged dice before you take your next action. The only instance where you may lose Kanan Jarrus - Rebel Jedi's ranged dice is if you rolled him out and the opponent claimed on the very next action, as you would likely resolve it for free on your next turn.

nickthebug7777 1374

@Setzuen I agree I'm leaning towards Obi Wan's Hut for this deck. I personally don't find Moisture Farm to be particularly risky but Obi Wan's Hut is better.

As for Secluded Beach, you will rarely be able to remove a range side because Cad Bane and Sabine roll out and immediately resolve their dice. In addition, this deck is already good versus ranged because we have deflect and tons of shields.

Makashi Training is pretty good but I've strayed away from it of late. The reason I'd rather have fearless is that if you have the dream setup (2x Shoto and 1x Fearless) you get 3 shields on activation every round. Also, the card draw helps a lot because you can loop Luke's Protection. With 2x Fearless on Qui Gon and 2x Luke's Protection in hand you can do 6 damage. Makashi Training is good but I'm leaning toward Fearless for this deck.

@Scactha if our opponent has to waste mitigation on a 1 melee side of a Vibroknife to bring their shields back online then that is fine. It protected your +3s and 2 melees. If they don't mitigate it, however, it cuts straight through their shields. It's a win win either way.

For the Secluded Beach discussion, if you reroll Kanan into lethal damage and it's a range side, your opponent can claim the battlefield to live longer.

Foz 999

@Setzuen I see the situation the same way and expect Kanan's power and the deck's lines of play make the situation rare at best. I have trouble imagining these situations where Kanan gets on ranged damage and your opponent removes it and you have no other way to kill that character. You probably aren't rerolling Kanan's dice without Qui-Gon's dice in pool (or at least upgrades Qui-Gon graciously willed to Kanan), so claiming there is likely suicide for your opponent since it lets you reroll all the other dice with no counterplay. If you do end up with Kanan's dice in pool alone a lot of the time, I have to question how exactly that happens because it seems to me like it shouldn't be.

That said, I certainly do see the synergy of Obi-Wan's Hut - Tatooine. It's rough that it helps out Kylo though. It's probably safe enough with the current metagame composition, but if the rumored nerf to Nines does hit, I would watch for a shift toward more blue characters. 3-character lists will be in a much tougher place with a lesser Nines, and Phasma will probably arise as a huge format staple at that point, even more than she has already been adopted. Given that, either Kylo or Anakin are solid pairings with her, as well as Cad obviously. That puts two blue characters in a great place to benefit from Phasma's obvious value, and I expect those decks would become a substantial part of the format which would make Obi-Wan's Hut - Tatooine quite problematic to run.

nickthebug7777 1374

@Foz it is unlikely yes. However, I don't feel as if Obi Wan's Hut provides much for the opponent even if they are running blue. I think it's just an all around better option.

It's not great that it helps Kylo but really it helps us more and Kylo/FN isn't exactly the fastest to claim the battlefield. I will say that if FN gets a nerf the whole game will shift. Different characters will be good, different pairings will be common, and different cards will need to be slotted into every deck. That being said, we need to work with what we have for the time being and change our decks after the nerf, not before.

Setzuen 445

@Foz @nickthebug7777 I completely agree with you, @Foz. I'm running eKanan / Rey / Padawan, and I haven't had a single situation where my opponent has claimed Secluded Beach - Scarif and removed my Kanan Jarrus - Rebel Jedi dice, because I've always resolve-cheated out of my pool the following round.

It's rough that Obi-Wan's Hut - Tatooine helps out Kylo Ren - Tormented One, but it doesn't help FN-2199 - Loyal Trooper. Kylo Ren - Tormented One should always be the focus for mono decks anyway, and once he's dead, Obi-Wan's Hut - Tatooine becomes useless for the opponent again. If the opponent runs Captain Phasma - Ruthless Tactician instead, the same situation applies, although this variant is much weaker than FN-2199 - Loyal Trooper's. eKylo / eAnakin won't be as powerful either, as his sides aren't much stronger than FN-2199 - Loyal Trooper, and he lacks an effect. The only time it becomes (potentially) problematic to run, is when the opponent is mono blue too, and even then they have to be faster in order to claim it before you do. Even if they do, Vibroknife fixes that problem by making their shields void.

To summarise; stating that Obi-Wan's Hut - Tatooine is problematic against other blue decks is simply happen-chance. If you're against a blue deck, that is faster, when you don't have Vibroknife, then yes, you're at a disadvantage, but that's a lot of boxes to tick. It's equally fair to say that Secluded Beach - Scarif is useless against melee decks. Sure, it doesn't hinder you, but it doesn't help you, either. Against ranged, Secluded Beach - Scarif is great, just as Obi-Wan's Hut - Tatooine is great against red and/or yellow decks. With Obi-Wan's Hut - Tatooine, you can still benefit from Obi-Wan's Hut - Tatooine, even if you're against a mono blue deck, by simply claiming first. With Secluded Beach - Scarif, 50% of the time you'll be against melee, so 50% of the time it'll be a useless battlefield. However, it can never be used against you, as this deck is pure melee. Both cards have fair arguments, and they're both worth considering.

nickthebug7777 1374

@Setzuen I would agree that both cards are good and are worth considering. I will say also that both are probably better than Moisture Farm. I think you have Qui Gon in your deck, then Obi Wan's Hut is slightly better.

I've played maybe 10 games with blue hero where I was running Secluded Beach and I got my Kanan die removed one time. While this wasn't a big deal, I was going to focus it to a 2 melee the next action for the win. I won promptly the next round but I could've won earlier.

In comparison, I have played maybe 25-30 games with Obi Wan's Hut and, like you said, it is rarely as useful to the opponent. They have to have a blue character, they have to be faster than you, which blue decks only sometimes are, and you will often have Vibroknife out anyway to void those shields. Unless the opponent is playing Qui Gon, you will have the advantage with Obi Wan's Hut in my opinion. Even if they are playing Qui Gon, if you play it right, you can usually claim first.

The argument can be made that the opponent may have Vibroknife and will void your shields but , due to Qui Gon's ability and Riposte, we use our shields for more than just protection.

Foz 999

Let's not overstate Vibroknife versus the shield from Obi-Wan's Hut. It doesn't actually fix the problem a lot of the time; it would for some decks (Mace Padawan for instance), but with Qui-Gon's untyped damage and Kanan's side, you're almost guaranteed to hit that shield off even with a Vibro down. Especially in a build like this that is so focused on making shields for Qui-Gon, it's common that you'll do enough non-melee damage that the shield is either getting used or forcing a ton of your damage onto the wrong target. And that's without even figuring the odds that they throw Doubt or some other removal at your Vibro die. Part of the reason I do not like Vibro in this deck is that it does so much Qui-Gon damage that you probably can't actually ignore shields even when Vibro is in play.

I still do think it presents better synergy with this deck than any opponents will get from it, but it's just silly to act like it's useless to everyone just because you can play Vibroknife. Mace could make that argument compelling, but Qui-Gon cannot.

nickthebug7777 1374

@Foz it is true that our ping damage from Qui Gon and the range side on Kanan will probably need to plow through the shields. However, the Vibroknife will help you go in for the kill. In the example we've been discussing, the opponent has 1 or 2 health left and can use Secluded Beach to remove your damage or Obi Wan's Hut to block damage. In this case, with the opponent at 1 or two health, Vibroknife will keep our opponent from claiming to survive.

Yes, I am aware that if they couldn't remove my ranged side, because we aren't playing Secluded Beach, and they instead take a shield, because we are playing Obi Wan's Hut the ranged side would not be helped by Vibroknife. However, the ranged side on a Kanan die is not just 1 range damage but the potential to be 2 melee damage, which can be unclockable. This is especially true if you have a Kanan focus out.

My argument to include Vibroknife is that if our melee is unblockable we can attack the character with the shields with our melee and the other character with our shield pings and ranged side.

Scactha 882

/agree Foz. Mace thrives, Qui-Gon does not.

In other news. Ashoka works as well with the Fearless/LP package. With one of each out you generate a minumum of 4/turn. The obvious drawback being no free way of converting them into ping damage. The extra card is quite impactful though imho.

Setzuen 445

Vibroknife is only a single factor. The opposing deck also has to be blue, and fast enough to claim. Vibroknife is indeed something that should be overstated, because it makes all melee damage ignore any shields the opponent "may" have generated from Obi-Wan's Hut - Tatooine. Sure, Qui-Gon Jinn - Ataru Master's effect isn't unblockable with Vibroknife, but if I had Vibroknife out and my opponent had shields, it would be common sense to NOT ping with Qui-Gon Jinn - Ataru Master into opposing shields, as it would be inefficient. In that instance, I'd simply claim shields as shields, and not use the effect. As for Kanan Jarrus - Rebel Jedi's ranged side, that's 1/6. You have an equal chance of rolling his 2 melee, or any other side for that matter. If it does happen, simply include his dice in a re-roll. Just because an opponent has shields, that doesn't mean we must run head first into them. Claim shields as shields and don't ping, or re-roll them, or don't activate your shield-gen cards until only unshielded characters remain.

nickthebug7777 1374

@Scactha Ahsoka is good but I feel like she isn't as good as Qui Gon right now.

@Setzuen makes a good point that we can play around both our ability, our Vibroknife, and the opponents shield. That's a lot of variables that we are able to control. The more choices we have the more likely we are to win a game (assuming we are both smart and experienced).

In other news, I played 3 games against Kylo/FN last night and won 3 out of 3 due to Vibroknife. Kylo pulled a gray card (Vibroknife) several times over those games and then when he played a Force Illusion I was able to ignore it with Vibroknife for the win. I also played 10 other games and went 9/1 with this deck. Moisture Farm is fine against every deck except Kylo/FN. FN can simply abuse that battlefield to a ridiculous degree.

Foz 999

I piloted Mace/Padawan at locals yesterday, and I have to say it feels really strong. I feel the reason is that it does what this deck is trying to do, only better/faster. The main advantage here is spamming upgrades and mitigating a lot of damage while you do some yourself. Mace's dice lend themselves really well to both Destiny and Guard which are hugely powerful to that end. The other often-overlooked aspect is Padawan which actually unlocks a huge amount of upgrade spam in round 1. Often my games would go:

  • Reaping a 3-cost weapon (Rey's Lightsaber usually) onto Padawan
  • Roll out Padawan
  • Destiny Padawan and/or Upgrade dice to play something on Mace for free
  • Activate Mace

At that point you still generally have 1 left to pay Mace if you need to or to play events if not, since Reaping a 3-cost onto Padawan only costs 1. One game I played a Rey's and a Handcrafted Light Bow in round 1. Obviously it won't always go down like that, but if you mulligan aggressively it's actually pretty common to put together explosive turn 1s in that deck. It's really hard for other decks to keep up with the amount of setup that Mace can get done on turn 1, owing largely to Padawn IMO.

Playing that deck also made me realize how front-loaded Reaping The Crystal and Destiny are versus the back-loaded It Binds All Things. IBAT takes 2 turns to even net you a resource. Reaping and Destiny on the other hand generate immediate advantage, and together just do insane things. Having an extra resource turn 1 instead of turn 2 is a big deal in a number of different ways, and I think the game's current speed makes the one-shot economy cards much bigger advantages in building early board presence. They also have the advantage of not being terrible on later turns of the game when there isn't enough time left to get much out of IBAT.

nickthebug7777 1374

@Foz I'm glad to hear that it seems strong! Mace is great and Padawan, like you said, is one of the best cards blue hero has in its arsenal.

That being said, I don't know how much better it is than Qui/Kanan. You pointed out, correctly imo, that Mace/Padawan does its job faster and that Reaping and Destiny are faster as compared to It Binds All Things. It think that is the mane difference between the two decks is the speeds at which they play.

The way I play it, Mace/Padawan is fast and unrelenting. This needs to be the way it's played because you have one beatstick character and the Padawan (while good) suffers if he falls). On the other side of the same coin, Qui/Kanan plays a little slower. I aim to take down a character (in two character decks) by the time my first character drops and then my last character can usually win the game with little to no damage on him.

I agree with everything you said regarding Mace/Padawan and I am also impressed with the deck. I think it needs to be played differently than Qui/Kanan. I think Destiny and Reaping belong in Mace/Padawan and not in Qui/Kanan. I've done lots of testing with both and yes, both are very strong. I'm glad blue hero finally has good options!

If you don't mind my asking, what battlefield did you use? and did you like it?

Foz 999

I played a list very nearly the same as Double Blanks Jay's list. I played Obi-Wan's Hut - Tatooine though Jay's build had used Imperial Armory - Death Star. I felt that with all the shenanigans the deck does, I would probably end up not claiming most of the time and Armory seemed too good to consistently let opponents have. It did end up playing pretty slowly, though I don't think I played a single match on my battlefield so I can't really judge its performance.

I did play against numerous blue decks though so it might have been the wrong pick. Papa vader, Luke, and an intriguing Quinlan Vos - Dark Disciple / Asajj Ventress - Force Assassin deck all showed up, among others. I honestly expected more non-blue to be in the field. Secluded Beach - Scarif would probably not have done a damn thing in any of the matches had I played that instead, but it also could only have been used against 1 side on Handcrafted Light Bow.

I didn't play Lightsaber Pull, but should have. Rey's Lightsaber is so good I basically want as many ways to find it round 1 as possible, especially since it has big sides to enable Destiny plays.

nickthebug7777 1374

@Foz I also would have expected less blue and more ranged decks. In your case, Secluded Beach wouldn't have helped you while Obi Wan's Hut did. However, Obi wan's hut also helped your opponents. If you had to choose a totally different battlefield, which one would you pick? I'd probably use Imperial Armory, Moisture Farm, or Mos Eisley Spaceport.

It's interesting that you missed Lightsaber Pull. In the Mace/Padawan deck I would probably have included it but if you missed it in play it seems like it should be included for sure.

Foz 999

Well, I wouldn't pick Moisture Farm - Tatooine probably, the resource is too easy to utilize. Mace is full of free events and expensive upgrades, so it would make sense to pick Armory out of those since all we really want to do is pay for upgrades, and that might not mesh with the opponent's plan very well. They may use it, where-as they would definitely use the 1 from Moisture Farm - Tatooine to some benefit. Mos Eisley Spaceport - Tatooine is another do-nothing field, and is certainly a safe play. I wonder if Jedi Temple - Coruscant could be a thing for Mace, most of the time I seem to dump my events really fast, so probably not losing much if opponent gets it. Also might sometimes disrupt cards like It's a Trap! that opponents might hold onto for a bit. Imperial Armory - Death Star probably is the best pick for a field like I encountered.

Mace could also consider Rebel War Room - Yavin IV to help alleviate pay side issues, but I expect that's a huge liability in the Cad matchup where he could just pick your field, get shields, and claim to pay his own sides all game. Similar reason why Moisture Fam is not the greatest pick, in some matches it hands an opponent a field they really want.

A main reason I missed Lightsaber Pull is that it gets the right upgrade. I felt like Handcrafted Light Bow, while a reliable damage producer, was still far behind Rey's Lightsaber. I would probably cut one Light Bow for one of the Pulls. The other is trickier, but likely to replace Shoto Lightsaber IMO since Mace cares a lot less about the power than Qui-Gon does, and also often overwrites a weapon into Master of the Council which wouldn't work with Shoto Lightsaber. The other options would be Ancient Lightsaber or Vibroknife, but I feel like Mace prefers both those cards over Shoto Lightsaber.

nickthebug7777 1374

@Foz I agree that I probably would not choose Moisture Farm because FN just abuses it. Jedi Temple isn't a bad idea because Mace uses his events fast and he doesn't have to many that are very important. That being said, if you had a specific event you were saving for next round they could easily disrupt your game plan. Imperial Armory is really good with the Padawan as well so I'd probably take that one.

Rebel War Room is awesome for Mace in a vacuum. Unfortunately, Cad Bane abuses it more than we do and is able to claim faster. In addition, he is a very common opponent at the top tables.

As for Lightsaber Pull, I probably would drop Handcrafted Light Bow because it costs 3 and is just not as good as Rey's Lightsaber for the same cost. It also gives your opponent the opportunity to use It's A Trap which is not fun. That being said, you could definitely drop 1 or both of the Shoto Sabers. I think they are important for a Qui Gon deck but not so much for a Mace deck. I'd probably drop 1 of each of 2 weapons for Lightsaber Pull because you can always pull the other copy if you need.

nickthebug7777 1374

@Foz @Setzuen @karolko @Scactha what do you guys think about this deck post errata? I'm considering dropping Vibroknife (I think it is still good and got a fairly soft nerf but should be removed because there is so much blue weapon synergy here). I think we can drop 1 copy of Rey's Lightsaber and that we probably want to add in 2 copies of Lightsaber Pull.

I'm not sure that we need Rend and Sound The Alarm anymore because Kylo2 has no partners anymore so we need less gray cards. I feel like we still want at least 1 copy of Rend for Sith Holorcons. Sound the Alarm can be replaced by Overconfidence if removal is necessary (although I like that Sound the Alarm is free). Other replacement options include Do Or Do Not (a fantastic card with Qui Gon).

karolko 250

@nickthebug7777 From my version I would cut Vibroknifes and Rend and would include 2 Lightsaber and 2 Trust Your Instincs. The other option would be to optimize 3 point cost weapons between Lightsabers (regular, Rey's and Luke's) and Hand Crafted Lightbow. Hand Crafted Lightbow is especially cool as an replacement to Vibroknives. As for events other option would be to include removal (deflects) into my version. Also, you should try Lightsaber Trainings in your version, they're excellent and will be even more so if you play just blue weapons.

Note that if it turns out that either eKylo / FN or eKylo / Grievous is still a player in meta than we would have to revert back to grey stuff.

Scactha 882

@nickthebug7777 That´s all sound options. I believe they disallowed overwriting unique upgrades, making double Reys iffy too and Do Or Do Not is a top choice with Qui-Gon in my book. Deflect is a question mark with Phasma2 gone from being in every deck. Might be worth a second look.

nickthebug7777 1374

@karolko those are good points. I would probably not include Luke's Lightsaber or regular Lightsaber but I would love to find a place for the Lightbow in this build. I probably won't end up including Trust Your Instincts in this deck but I could see it having a place.

I'm still not totally sold on Lightsaber Training but with Vibroknife gone, it definitely fits better. Do you run Riposte in your build? I can't remember. In an effort to tighten up the list I may drop Riposte, both copies of Rend, and both copies of Vibroknife.

Yes, if eKylo/FN or eKylo/Greivous becomes a problem for us, then we will need to toss Vibroknife and Rend back into the list. From my preliminary testing, however, I think it will not be hard for us to beat those decks. Kylo2 should fall early turn 3 at the absolute latest and FN and Grievous have a hard time closing the game by themselves if we have a fully loaded Kanan.

nickthebug7777 1374

@Scactha yes double Rey's was already iffy but I think the recent RRG made it worse. I'm glad you agree about Do Or Do Not. It's one of the best cards for Qui Gon imo. I think Deflect still has a place but if ranged decks drop off then it can definitely be removed.

karolko 250

@nickthebug7777 Reason for regular Lightsaber is to add more redeploy weapons to deck. One of the way to lose the game with this deck is to lose equipped Qui-Gon early and additional redeploy weapons would help to mitigate the issue.

I am not running riposte in my version (was never fan of that card) lightsaber training on the other hand is super effective at closing out games.

nickthebug7777 1374

@karolko I've never really had an issue with a lack of redeploy in this deck. I suppose Lightsaber is the best option if you do, though.

I liked Riposte against the Thrawnkar match-up but now that Thrawnkar doesn't exist it will only be useful against mill decks (of which there are few) and as a finisher.

Lightsaber Training is a great finisher. I'm just not sure how much this deck needs it. I've tested it out for the last few games and it seems to be a bit of a win more card in my opinion.

Setzuen 445

Let's not get too hasty. I wouldn't consider (even for a second) removing Vibroknife. It's still one of the best upgrades in the game, even after the errata. It costs a mere 2 resources, it has consistent sides and it has ambush. Even if it had no effect whatsoever, I'd still include it just based on its speed and value.

Sound The Alarm is the same story. It should be included because it's one of the most efficient control cards in the entire game, not because it "may" be a target for the overrated Kylo Ren - Tormented One decks.

Now lets be clear - the erratas were a blessing for this deck, not a curse. They buckled almost every other top deck out there, but for you, only Vibroknife was affected, which is a minor hit at best.

nickthebug7777 1374

@Setzuen I agree I'm still a big fan of Vibroknife. I also think it got a very soft nerf and isn't that much worse than before. With that said, it may be a better approach to go all in on the blue weapons sweet with all of the synergy there. My testing is inconclusive so far with Vibroknife helping in some games but in others I wished I had Do Or Do Not or something instead..

I agree I'm probably going to keep Sound The Alarm. In the last meta it was mediocre but in this one, dice saturation is going to one of our biggest adversaries and Sound The Alarm really takes care of the God Roll on a bunch of dice.

The erratas definitely helped us a bunch. This deck was on the verge of tier one before but I think that it is one of the best decks out there right now. I also think that with such a shifting meta it is worth looking at cards that can be changed in this build. Vibroknife may not be as important as it was because Thrawnkar isn't a huge threat producing tons of shields.

Setzuen 445

If anything, the changes to Vibroknife helped this deck. Blue heroes are so shield-reliant, yours especially, and with the only real threat to shields gone, a shield is about as good as an extra health point now. Also, don't worry so much about "blue synergy", as the only card that benefits from blue weapons is Shoto Lightsaber, and quite frankly that's a card that's far more replaceable than Vibroknife.

I'm not sold on Do Or Do Not. It's okay, but it's very random, and quite slow. Spending an action to re-roll a single dice, when you could just re-roll everything in the same action for a discard, seems much more action-inefficient. The only benefit is adding a +1, but on the down side, you could roll a blank, and in that scenario, you'd be using a card and using an action to remove your own dice, which is ridiculous. If it had Ambush, or if it worked on opposing dice too, I'd consider it. As it stands, it seems to be a far worse version of Trust The Force. Trust The Force rerolls AS MANY dice as you want, and you can re-roll opposing dice as long as they're blue, which is some serious mass control. Also, you don't have to remove dice that can't be resolved. I think all of these positives far outweigh the possible +1 on resolution that Do Or Do Not offers.

nickthebug7777 1374

@Setzuen yes, the change to Vibroknife did help us much more than it hurt us. It was one of our biggest issues that we had to overcome. With that being said, lets not overstate the lack of shield hate in this game. I think with Vibroknife gone, blue hero will be one of the best archetypes. I think this will cause people to run Vibroaxe, Intimidate and Jedi Rival which hurt us more than Vibroknife because they turn off Qui Gon's ability.

I'd consider removing Vibroknie mostly because I was considering it before the nerf and now it is slightly worse. There is more blue synergy than just simply the Shotos. We have Shotos, It Binds All Things, The Force is Strong, Lightsaber Training, Lightsaber Pull,and The Power of the Force as cards we could potentially include.

As for Do Or Do Not, I agree it is not a stellar card. However, I love it with Qui Gon because there is only one side that you don't like (the blank).

Setzuen 445

If you run against a deck that uses cards like BD-1 Cutter Vibro-AX and Jedi Rival, you'll probably win anyway, because someone that would include these cards, just on the off-chance that they face a shield deck, has probably included all sorts of other weird and situational cards in their deck. Sure, there are cards that deal with shields, but what made Vibroknife so great is that it was an incredibly efficient weapon that just so happened to make shields redundant. Everything about Vibroknife made it a staple, whereas the other anti-shield cards only serve the purpose of removing shields. Simpy put, very few people will run these cards unless shield decks overrun the meta. Until that happens, most people will consider anti-shield cards too situational. You see, right now, people are still reeling from the erratas. The dust hasn't settled yet, and a meta hasn't been established. I've always considered Blue Hero decks to be the most powerful decks in the game, ever since the game's launch, simply because I've run over the "top tier decks" in every tournament I've attended. With the nerfs to FN-2199 - Loyal Trooper, Unkar Plutt - Junk Dealer and Captain Phasma - Ruthless Tactician, villain decks are almost comically bad right now (outside of Blue control). It won't take long for people to realise that Hero > Villain, and when they do, they might just set their sights on Qui-Gon Jinn - Ataru Master as a threat and start including anti-shield cards to deal with him. Qui-Gon Jinn - Ataru Master decks are very strong. I won my store championship with one months ago, beating all villain decks in an 8 - 0 sweep. I've always considered him top tier, but he's under everyone else's radar, which means that (for now) anti-shield cards will be rare.

The cards that you could potentially run by removing Vibroknife aren't really worth running, aside from Shoto Lightsaber and (maybe) It Binds All Things, although I dropped the latter months ago in favour of Destiny. The Force is Strong is just plain bad, and The Power of the Force is a trap. It looks good on paper, but in practice, you realise that stacking enough upgrades to make it worthwhile is very expensive and very slow, so you end up holding on to it, round after round, when you could have been drawing and activating better cards, in the hopes that the card will eventually pay off (plot twist - it never does). Lightsaber Training isn't great either. The dice you manipulate have to be "Your" "Blue" "Weapons", which are a lot of boxes to tick. You have to pay a resource for it, too, and the effect is something that you could achieve for no resource cost on as many dice as you want, with a humble discard re-roll. Lightsaber Pull is the only viable card that you listed, and as I said before, I think it's a little slow, compared to simply drawing your upgrades during your upkeep phase, which doesn't use an action. I personally prefer to use my deck slots for another play set of control cards, as I draw more than enough upgrades to last.

nickthebug7777 1374

@Setzuen it seems like, in general, you and I build decks like this the same way. I won my SC with Qui Gon/Rey a couple months ago going 5-0.

I think that when Qui Gon and other hero shield cards become the top of the meta (and they will imo) that people will begin running shield hate cards. These may cause the deck to be situationally bad, but they will beat the Qui Gon decks that are at the top tables. I also find Vibroaxe to be a pretty good card without the ability and it is even better against shields.

As for removing Vibroknife, I think it is still a good card but it may be worth removing. I also took out It Binds All Things for a while but slotted it back in when blue heroes became the upgrade archetype. I don't like Destiny, The Force Is Strong, or The Power of the Force for my build but they are options that synergize with blue weapons well which is why I wrote about them. Lightsaber Training is not my favorite card either but if you had only blue weapons it could add some umph to the deck.

Lightsaber Pull allows you to include just 1 Rey's Saber and also allows you to pull your Shoto's for the double Shoto trick. Finally, it can get you your Ancients and allow you to heal in times of need. I think Lightsaber Pull and maybe Lightsaber Training as well as It Binds All Things have places in this deck.

I think those alone might be worth removing Vibroknife because our shield ping damage is blockable and so we will need to go through shields anyway. In addition, Vibroknife no longer makes all melee unblockable to the rest of your melee will still need to plow through shields. I think it is certainly worth testing the deck without it. In my testing, I surprisingly don't miss it very much at all.

nickthebug7777 1374

V2 is up! Thanks for all the suggestions guys! swdestinydb.com

amustoe 47

This was a great deep dive into the deck! I enjoyed reading the generous comment stream. What I've done is gone the slow path with 2 Luke's Protection, 2 Fearless, 2 Trust Your Instincts and it has provided good flexibility against Running Interference. One addition that I've enjoyed is 2 copies of Take Cover to either replace a foundation of shields for Qui-Gon's ability if you get vibroaxed. This also provides more gray cards incase Kylo2 is getting frisky. For me damage out of hand with Synchronicity, Riposte, and yes even Take Cover with all the Luke's protection shenanigans is what makes the deck shine.